SPEAKER_1: Welcome, everybody.
SPEAKER_1: I'm your special host of tonight.
SPEAKER_1: Thankfully, I have been trusted to welcome our special speaker.
SPEAKER_1: I am your court jester, Clair, and I'd like to introduce you to the god empress of our region, the whisperer of the unheard truths, keeper of the lost lore of Elenia, freer of the nine seas, generator of good fortune and beloved of the trees.
SPEAKER_1: Everyone, put your hands together for Brianna.
SPEAKER_1: Well, don't clap at once, okay?
SPEAKER_2: Very good.
SPEAKER_2: Hello, it is I, the Immortal Empress, who never ages, as you can tell, from the youthful sound of my voice.
SPEAKER_1: You look like the day I met you, which was last week, because you killed your last court jester.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, I did do that, and I would do it again.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, but you are such a good court jester, aren't you?
SPEAKER_1: I sure hope so.
SPEAKER_3: Just such a good court jester in my court, were you jest?
SPEAKER_3: Oh, my good court jester, for what entertainment have you prepared for me today?
SPEAKER_1: I have scoured the lands and found the good entertainment of the new folk.
SPEAKER_1: I believe they have called it a podcast.
SPEAKER_1: You put it on your head, and it explains things to you, and sometimes it's funny.
SPEAKER_1: And this one, you'll like it, I promise, you'll definitely like it.
SPEAKER_1: It's about cravings, and they solve them.
SPEAKER_2: I crave so many things.
SPEAKER_1: Yes, we know.
SPEAKER_1: We knew you do.
SPEAKER_1: We will get you your cravings.
SPEAKER_2: It sounds delightful, like a crown you wear on your head, and it explains things to you.
SPEAKER_1: Yes, a crown, exactly like that.
SPEAKER_1: Let me get you your explainy crown.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, good.
SPEAKER_3: And then the court jester takes a pair of pencils and attaches a crown to them and puts them on the Empress's head.
SPEAKER_3: And it's all very good.
SPEAKER_3: That's what you're watching.
SPEAKER_3: So if this was like, if we were to upload this to YouTube, it would just be a static kind of a video of the Empress just looking while the audio plays.
SPEAKER_1: I think it would be slightly more than static.
SPEAKER_1: It would be like the low vibes, but like every now and then the Empress nods or like shakes her head in like, or like looks over at the court jester with a face, pulls a lever at a new court jester, comes on the screen.
SPEAKER_3: Honestly, it's impressive that this last court jester lasted a week.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Hi.
SPEAKER_3: Hey, everyone.
SPEAKER_1: Let's solve some cravings.
SPEAKER_3: That was a good bit.
SPEAKER_3: That was a good intro bit.
SPEAKER_3: As we get closer to the end, we also get more unethical in our intro bits.
SPEAKER_3: Not unethical.
SPEAKER_3: I mean, I guess hierarchical is what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_3: You know, we're getting real wild with it.
SPEAKER_3: I've been thinking about the juxtaposition between the silly and the serious.
SPEAKER_3: And so we're going to be seeing that in my cravings today.
SPEAKER_3: The first one, of course, being how much I crave music that is upbeat and high energy and fun and exciting in its sound.
SPEAKER_3: But the lyrics are depressing as hell.
SPEAKER_3: I love that.
SPEAKER_1: OK, like pumped up kicks.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, like pumped up kicks.
SPEAKER_3: My favorite example, I'm about to send and we can give it a listen.
SPEAKER_3: I also really like the music video for this one.
SPEAKER_3: That's why I put it at the point that it's at.
SPEAKER_3: But it's Mad World, the original version by Tears For Fears.
SPEAKER_3: Do you want to play on?
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, they really, I forgot that this was upbeat.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, it's so upbeat.
SPEAKER_3: I love this fucking music video.
SPEAKER_1: Why is there just a man dancing?
SPEAKER_3: It's another member of the band and that's the vibe.
SPEAKER_3: This is exactly the vibe that I'm looking for.
SPEAKER_3: This guy sadly singing out the window while another guy is just breaking it down outside.
SPEAKER_1: He has like the hand mitten, the fingerless gloves, but they're like knitted fingerless gloves.
SPEAKER_1: It's great.
SPEAKER_3: It's incredible.
SPEAKER_1: Is the vibe the juxtaposition of the amusing and sad or is it like specifically in music?
SPEAKER_1: Is it specifically this music video?
SPEAKER_3: It's all of this type of music.
SPEAKER_3: There's a lot of really good examples.
SPEAKER_3: Pumped Up Kicks is another really good example.
SPEAKER_3: It's like something that you can dance and vibe to.
SPEAKER_3: But what they're singing about is like, I've got depression.
SPEAKER_3: I'm having a panic attack.
SPEAKER_3: Nothing is real by Shura.
SPEAKER_3: Another good example of that one where it is literally about a panic attack and is like a great song.
SPEAKER_3: I have a playlist with a bunch of these various types of songs because I'm just obsessed with it.
SPEAKER_3: I just want more of this to exist in the world.
SPEAKER_3: I want more of this really specific genre of the music tells you we're having fun, lyrics tell you, no, we're not.
SPEAKER_3: First of all, I would love to hear any good examples you have of this one that you like.
SPEAKER_1: I have a hard time hearing lyrics when I listen to music, so I have to listen to a song a hundred times before I know what it's saying, which is definitely why I end up liking a lot of songs like this.
SPEAKER_1: Because I'm like, oh, wow, this is really catchy.
SPEAKER_1: And then I'll learn what the song is about.
SPEAKER_1: I'm like, hmm, this is sad, actually.
SPEAKER_1: Shit.
SPEAKER_1: It's still catchy, though.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_1: It is catchy, though.
SPEAKER_1: I've been listening to a lot of post-metal, less vocal stuff, more ambient stuff.
SPEAKER_1: So, yeah, I don't have any examples.
SPEAKER_1: But in terms of getting more out of this, getting the sad juice out of our happy juice.
SPEAKER_3: Will the children be excited about it?
SPEAKER_3: Will the children know what they're singing about?
SPEAKER_1: It depends how young the child is.
SPEAKER_1: I imagine if we get them while they're quite young, we could probably get some really, really sad stuff in there.
SPEAKER_1: And it probably wouldn't affect them mentally.
SPEAKER_3: I'm going to do a Google search for saddest songs ever.
SPEAKER_1: Most depressing songs of all time.
SPEAKER_1: Hurt by Johnny Cash.
SPEAKER_1: We're going to make a child orchestra sing Hurt by Johnny Cash.
SPEAKER_1: Hurt by Nine Inch Nails pop remix.
SPEAKER_1: I need to know if this already exists.
SPEAKER_3: The number one rated here, what is Eric Clapton, Tears In Heaven, which is a very sad event that I won't get into.
SPEAKER_3: What a vibe it would be to have this really upbeat one.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, shit.
SPEAKER_1: Hallelujah.
SPEAKER_1: But it's like a 70s disco remix.
SPEAKER_3: Oh, my God.
SPEAKER_3: What about like, I mean, Hyperpop loves to do sad or depressing subjects.
SPEAKER_3: Have you ever listened to the lyrics of a Hyperpop song?
SPEAKER_3: You can make them out.
SPEAKER_3: They're usually about, hey, I'm severely mentally ill and I feel like I'm dying.
SPEAKER_3: And also, I'm probably trans.
SPEAKER_3: They've done a lot in those subjects.
SPEAKER_3: I think maybe they've done less.
SPEAKER_3: There's probably some that have been about war crimes.
SPEAKER_1: We should make the monarchy slash president stan pop, where it's kind of, it's sad in the fact that you don't want to listen to it.
SPEAKER_3: Yes.
SPEAKER_3: That does make sense to me.
SPEAKER_1: George Bush did 9-11.
SPEAKER_3: Please.
SPEAKER_3: Okay, we need to go for, what's depressing or sad, but not like...
SPEAKER_3: What's just a sad thing that happens sometimes?
SPEAKER_3: Oh, how many hyper-pop songs...
SPEAKER_3: Oh, this is sad.
SPEAKER_3: Shit, I've put myself into this position.
SPEAKER_3: But anyway, how many hyper-pop songs do you think there are about pets dying?
SPEAKER_3: Because a pet dying is pretty sad to me.
SPEAKER_3: It's basically one of the saddest things I can think of.
SPEAKER_1: I want to make my pet immortal so that I could live with it forever.
SPEAKER_1: But I know that it will not happen.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_3: Except it's been pitched up so high.
SPEAKER_3: It's just like, I want to make my pet immortal.
SPEAKER_1: Yes.
SPEAKER_3: I got a little bit wheezer there, but I hope the intent was felt.
SPEAKER_1: So it doesn't seem like there's a lack of this song type out there.
SPEAKER_3: I think the last time that I brought up something about this, it was my difficulty finding a lot of this music, of looking through Spotify and being like, why won't Spotify give me this playlist?
SPEAKER_1: Spotify's a coward.
SPEAKER_3: Spotify's a coward.
SPEAKER_3: And I did bring it up then.
SPEAKER_3: But I just simply think, what if all sad songs were like this?
SPEAKER_3: What if this was the only way you could do a sad song, was to make it a bop?
SPEAKER_3: For example, I think we could all agree, the sad version of Mad World doesn't affront to the original version.
SPEAKER_3: It's fine, I guess, if you want to play it straight or whatever, but I don't want to play anything straight.
SPEAKER_1: I would agree, except that Lorde did a cover of...
SPEAKER_3: Everybody Wants To Rule The World?
SPEAKER_1: Yes, which is better than the original.
SPEAKER_1: I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_3: So that one, I think...
SPEAKER_1: It's my controversial opinion.
SPEAKER_3: Both of those versions are super good and I think they really serve different purposes.
SPEAKER_3: I think I would like to shout out Everybody Wants To Rule The World for ending up on every female villains playlist ever made.
SPEAKER_1: Both of the versions.
SPEAKER_3: They're useful in different circumstances, you know?
SPEAKER_1: So we're outlawing sad, sad songs.
SPEAKER_1: Only happy sad songs now.
SPEAKER_3: What do you get out of listening to a really sad-like sounding song?
SPEAKER_3: What has anyone ever gotten out of a minor key?
SPEAKER_3: Let's be honest here.
SPEAKER_3: Let's be honest with ourselves.
SPEAKER_1: Sometimes you need to cry.
SPEAKER_1: Sometimes you just need to provoke the tears out of your face.
SPEAKER_1: Sort of like when you're provoking a bull with a red sheet, you have to sort of lead the tears, sort of swish the sad song in front of your face until the tears are extracted from you.
SPEAKER_3: I just don't think that you should need fucking Sarah McLachlan singing Arms of the Angels to make you burst into tears.
SPEAKER_1: To be clear, I feel like that song has been so memed where it's sort of come right around and it's kind of a happy sad song.
SPEAKER_3: Right, but it was one of those ones that was trying to get specifically that reaction to make people cry.
SPEAKER_3: And then it was, you know, used in advertisements for almost certainly colonialist missionary endeavors and also maybe songs about pets.
SPEAKER_3: And it's kind of fucked up that it was used in both of those and we're just not gonna get into that.
SPEAKER_3: You know, I think you can cry to a really upbeat sad song, but it is, I admit there is definitely time and a place for it.
SPEAKER_1: There's like a different cry energy.
SPEAKER_1: It's like instead of beats per minute, you have to consider the tears per minute.
SPEAKER_1: Like sometimes...
SPEAKER_3: Right, you gotta sob on beat.
SPEAKER_3: You gotta sob on beat.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, perfect, yes.
SPEAKER_1: Sometimes you need a really, really slow sob beat.
SPEAKER_1: Sob, sobs per minute.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, it's true.
SPEAKER_1: SPM.
SPEAKER_3: Sobs per minute is a really good way to start describing the variety of various types of sad songs.
SPEAKER_3: Now that I'm thinking about a lot of the sad songs with upbeat lyrics or with upbeat, like sad lyrics, upbeat tempo, I think a lot of this is just being mentally ill and specifically mania.
SPEAKER_3: This is what mania, sorry, this is what mania feels like.
SPEAKER_1: Mania has a high sobs per minute.
SPEAKER_3: I bet that the Follow Up Boy album Mania also has that.
SPEAKER_3: Though I don't think the Follow Up Boy has ever or could ever make me cry.
SPEAKER_1: There has to be a band called Sobs Per Minute.
SPEAKER_3: There has to be.
SPEAKER_3: If not, it's our band now.
SPEAKER_1: There isn't.
SPEAKER_1: Quick, form a band where we only make hyper pop sad songs, but it's double hyper pop because it's even faster.
SPEAKER_3: Is ska this?
SPEAKER_3: Ska kind of feels like it's this.
SPEAKER_3: There's a lot of sad ska, honestly.
SPEAKER_3: A lot of it is talking about social issues.
SPEAKER_3: I've become the ska defender recently, not because I listen to a great deal of ska.
SPEAKER_3: I do like the ska that I've listened to.
SPEAKER_3: Maybe we gave ska too hard of a time.
SPEAKER_3: I don't know if we didn't do it, but I think society has given ska a lot of shit that maybe it didn't deserve.
SPEAKER_1: Me out here with a sign that says band ska.
SPEAKER_3: I can't believe you.
SPEAKER_1: Ska defender has logged on.
SPEAKER_3: Thank you for musing on me with this sort of music.
SPEAKER_3: If anyone's got good recommendations for your favorite songs of this type, let me know.
SPEAKER_3: Maybe I'll throw together a playlist and link it with the description.
SPEAKER_1: Keep them subs per minute high.
SPEAKER_1: You know how Brianna likes it.
SPEAKER_3: Phrasing it like that is concerning to me.
SPEAKER_3: Let's just push on to your next craving.
SPEAKER_1: I didn't actually pick any of my cravings yet.
SPEAKER_3: Why didn't you do it?
SPEAKER_3: This is episode 67.
SPEAKER_1: I'm looking at them.
SPEAKER_3: We've been doing this for 66 episodes and every time we pick our cravings beforehand.
SPEAKER_3: And we might have a last minute switch up part way through when we realize the vibes of the episode, but we always have them chosen beforehand.
SPEAKER_3: Good God.
SPEAKER_3: Are we not professionals?
SPEAKER_1: No.
SPEAKER_2: What?
SPEAKER_2: No.
SPEAKER_1: My first craving is discomfort in safety because I really like when I can feel uncomfortable in an environment that I know I will be safe in because that usually results in growth.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: So I crave it.
SPEAKER_3: So you crave safe discomfort.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, like the knowledge that like I can be wrong, I can have an uncomfortable conversation and my safety will not be in jeopardy.
SPEAKER_3: That is how growth happens and that is how things change.
SPEAKER_3: And also just like sometimes I think about this even just beyond needing to talk things through and grow and all of that, seeing media that like can make you uncomfortable or parts of media that can make you uncomfortable, but you're doing it in a safe way.
SPEAKER_3: I mean, that's the basis of horror, right?
SPEAKER_3: Like, good horror is that.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, maybe I should go into a horror movie.
SPEAKER_1: Maybe I should just make my life a horror movie and then.
SPEAKER_3: So here's my concern about that is, you remember the safe part of that?
SPEAKER_1: Is being not in the movie.
SPEAKER_3: Right, the safety part of it is not being in the movie, so you're not actually threatened.
SPEAKER_3: So we don't want you to be actually threatened, but what if you could get up close to it and not be threatened by it?
SPEAKER_1: It's like VR horror movie.
SPEAKER_3: I guess, yeah, VR is the thing that I'm describing.
SPEAKER_1: I want the experience of having my face ripped off without actually losing the skin on my face.
SPEAKER_1: It's no skin off my face, as they say.
SPEAKER_3: And maybe like you and the murderer can talk about complex political issues in some way.
SPEAKER_1: New Horror Game just dropped, talk the murderer down from murdering you.
SPEAKER_1: It uses AI language detection and VR, and it's you sitting across from someone who is going to murder you in an hour.
SPEAKER_3: That sounds kind of great.
SPEAKER_3: I'm not gonna lie.
SPEAKER_3: Also, there's a lot of games that I think do this, right?
SPEAKER_3: There's lots of group games that are all about feeling uncomfortable in a safe space.
SPEAKER_3: I mean, the thing that you described is not all that different from Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, which is that game where one of you is trying to undo a bomb and the other person has the instructions and you have to describe what the bomb looks like and they have to look through and find the relevant instructions and read you the instructions.
SPEAKER_3: You have to work together and hope not to fuck up.
SPEAKER_1: I don't know if this is exactly the discomfort I'm...
SPEAKER_1: Well, maybe wearing a VR headset is quite uncomfortable, but maybe I can do something like the safety dance to keep me safe.
SPEAKER_1: We've been talking a lot about songs.
SPEAKER_1: I think what if you talk on the dance floor, then you're safe?
SPEAKER_3: Totally.
SPEAKER_3: You're just having discussions about things you're not sure about on the dance floor, just like whatever lesbian discourse of the day, right?
SPEAKER_3: You're like on the dance floor.
SPEAKER_1: It's like, I just don't understand what a he-him lesbian is.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_3: Just dancing.
SPEAKER_3: Like, I'm not really sure about bi lesbians.
SPEAKER_1: And then cue your friend explaining the history of lesbians for 30 to 40 minutes.
SPEAKER_3: While everyone's still dancing.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, while no one stops dancing.
SPEAKER_1: At one point, there's a 10 minute solo where all the lights go on your friend, and they're doing this great maneuver, but they're still explaining as everyone is clapping them on.
SPEAKER_1: They're doing a headspin, still talking.
SPEAKER_2: Oh my god.
SPEAKER_3: I'm just imagining them going through the eras of lesbian history, and they're like, well, what do you know about 1920s Paris and the beat drops?
SPEAKER_3: Songs that involve just this new thing is we're creating a club where people can discuss issues and seek some information and feel a little bit uncomfortable, but in a safe space.
SPEAKER_3: And we know that this club is a safe space for that sort of questioning and stuff.
SPEAKER_1: I've just solved your other craving too, because it's songs that make you uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, I was going to say also that one.
SPEAKER_1: So it's less sad and more like, I should probably keep listening to that album.
SPEAKER_1: It was really good.
SPEAKER_1: I was teaching a bee about like, I don't know if I agree with it yet, but I still have like 30 songs left in the album.
SPEAKER_1: Albums are really long with this genre.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, because it gets really complicated.
SPEAKER_3: I'm just imagining this fucking atmosphere and it's delighting me.
SPEAKER_3: Just someone being like, you know, the way I was raised, there were only men and women.
SPEAKER_3: But I really want to learn more.
SPEAKER_1: I love the idea of this being a genre too, because then it's like, your friend says something is like, oh shit, wait, wait, that's okay.
SPEAKER_1: We need to talk about this.
SPEAKER_1: But I don't think I can say it as well.
SPEAKER_1: DJ, put this on.
SPEAKER_1: And then you just do a request and the DJ plays the song that explains it and everyone keeps dancing.
SPEAKER_3: Now I'm just imagining explaining complex political theory throughout an album where each song explains kind of a different concept.
SPEAKER_3: And by the end, you've basically heard fucking techno music version of the Communist Manifesto.
SPEAKER_2: Seize the means of production.
SPEAKER_1: The Communist Manidisco is what it's called.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, this feels like a pretty safe way to do this, right?
SPEAKER_3: Like what's safer than just dancing with your friends?
SPEAKER_3: And you know what we got places for, if you feel uncomfortable, some of the conversations happening, right?
SPEAKER_3: If they're painful to you, if they're harmful to you.
SPEAKER_3: We got a club next door where we don't, we resist, where we all chill.
SPEAKER_3: Don't, it's two clubs right next door to each other.
SPEAKER_3: One's the discomfort zone, and one's the non discomfort zone, you know?
SPEAKER_1: The discomfort zone is a good podcast that I think some of us used to listen to.
SPEAKER_3: You know what?
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, it really, I can't, I'm not even gonna go there.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_1: So I like this because if it is music, you can definitely find comfort in your own way, right?
SPEAKER_1: Like you could listen to this on your own time on a bus.
SPEAKER_1: Like maybe you just want to be really uncomfortable on a bus after the pandemic.
SPEAKER_1: This is when this comes in.
SPEAKER_3: Right, that's the thing.
SPEAKER_3: Because right now, there's a lot of feeling discomfort in actively unsafe spaces, which is everywhere right now is an actively unsafe space.
SPEAKER_1: So we need discomfort in safe spaces.
SPEAKER_1: Sometimes you want to think about how he, him, bi lesbian Jesus loves you too.
SPEAKER_3: Okay, this is a different Jesus.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, this is a different Jesus.
SPEAKER_1: Different Jesus every week.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, that's what we're promising as we wind down Salt Craving.
SPEAKER_1: This is the Patreon content.
SPEAKER_1: Different Jesus every week.
SPEAKER_1: Hey, new Jesus just dropped.
SPEAKER_3: New Jesus just dropped.
SPEAKER_3: Hang on, are there any non-lesbian Jesus?
SPEAKER_3: Because right now, we've done a lot of lesbian Jesus.
SPEAKER_1: I think there's like non-lesbian sapphic Jesus, but, you know, I think that's about as far as it gets.
SPEAKER_3: Jesus who's still questioning, but is pretty sure...
SPEAKER_1: Questioning Jesus, yeah.
SPEAKER_3: That'll be an answer to come back to.
SPEAKER_1: It hasn't crossed his mind yet.
SPEAKER_3: I just need a moment.
SPEAKER_3: I just need a moment where I forget that joke was made.
SPEAKER_3: It's uncomfortable to me, you see.
SPEAKER_3: Because I'm such a Jesus gal.
SPEAKER_3: I'm such a Jesus gal.
SPEAKER_3: I love Jesus.
SPEAKER_3: I love the way he sucked on dude's toes.
SPEAKER_3: Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_3: Yep.
SPEAKER_3: All right, there wasn't more to that.
SPEAKER_1: All right, yeah, there was...
SPEAKER_3: I'm sorry, I've just been thinking a lot about how in the time that the Bible was written, washing someone's feet was a euphemism for sex.
SPEAKER_3: And I just need to know about how that became a euphemism for sex and whether that involved, whether that was a foot fetish thing.
SPEAKER_3: It's giving me a lot of questions that I don't know the answer to.
SPEAKER_1: Thinking about euphemisms for sex, I'm gonna derail the podcast into Star Wars again, because that's part of what this podcast is, I think.
SPEAKER_1: I just watched the last few episodes of the first season of Clone Wars, and in the last episode of the first season, there is an entire scene where Anakin is asking Padme to touch his penis, because the lightsaber is a metaphor for his penis.
SPEAKER_2: Do you know what I'm talking about?
SPEAKER_3: I had forgotten about those episodes, because I ignore any Anakin-Padme episodes.
SPEAKER_3: I like Anakin episodes, and I like Padme episodes.
SPEAKER_3: I hate Anakin-Padme episodes.
SPEAKER_1: There is an entire opening scene where Anakin is like, I want you to hold this, and it's like, and she's like, it's so heavy.
SPEAKER_3: Oh my god, it's a metaphor for his fucking penis.
SPEAKER_3: Oh my fucking god.
SPEAKER_3: I didn't realize.
SPEAKER_3: This is so fucked.
SPEAKER_3: Oh my god.
SPEAKER_3: No one watch Clone Wars.
SPEAKER_3: That shit's terrifying.
SPEAKER_3: That shit will make you uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, it does.
SPEAKER_1: I was watching that scene, and I was like, hold on a second.
SPEAKER_1: He's talking about his penis.
SPEAKER_1: What?
SPEAKER_1: And it just recontextualizes the whole scene in the worst way.
SPEAKER_3: At least he wasn't cleaning his blaster.
SPEAKER_3: Cleaning his rifle.
SPEAKER_3: You get the reference?
SPEAKER_1: The clones did that.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, one of the clones did that.
SPEAKER_2: It was ha ha ha ha.
SPEAKER_3: Masturbation.
SPEAKER_1: There's a lot of sex jokes in Clone Wars.
SPEAKER_3: Also, this is not even that much of a derail because as we know, Anakin is a Jesus.
SPEAKER_3: Because he's a chosen one who was conceived through immaculate conception.
SPEAKER_3: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_1: Anakin is he-him Jesus.
SPEAKER_3: Can I just say that he's calling him he-him Jesus as if Jesus doesn't already use like the core, like the core canon Jesus, main universe Jesus?
SPEAKER_3: Canon comes from the Bible.
SPEAKER_3: Calling him canonical Jesus is accurate, okay?
SPEAKER_1: It's like canonical, I will have you respect canonical Jesus.
SPEAKER_1: This is, this happened in the book.
SPEAKER_1: I know all of the lore.
SPEAKER_1: I know the Jesus lore.
SPEAKER_3: Should we, should we maybe, should we burn Burn That Craving?
SPEAKER_1: We definitely set it in sync.
SPEAKER_1: A segment where we burn our old cravings and consider the flammability of the cravings, whatever that means.
SPEAKER_3: Okay, here's what I think we should do this time.
SPEAKER_3: We should try and decide to either both burn one concrete, one esoteric conceptual one, and then one wild card, okay?
SPEAKER_1: Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, I got my first one.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, the first one's gonna be the hardest one for me.
SPEAKER_1: Alright, my first one is the Pokemon Trading Card Game.
SPEAKER_3: My first one is Good Poutine.
SPEAKER_1: Good Poutine is pretty fire.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, but I think the Pokemon Trading Card Game can, those cards can burn much easier than Soggy Poutine.
SPEAKER_1: What if you put some cheese and gravy on some Pokemon cards?
SPEAKER_1: Is that Poutine?
SPEAKER_1: Alright, second one.
SPEAKER_3: The concept of making time for yourself.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, it's really funny because mine is full days alone with no human interaction.
SPEAKER_1: Yours is the setup, mine is the payoff.
SPEAKER_3: Right, yours is the active of my conceptual.
SPEAKER_1: Damn it, mine is still less conceptual.
SPEAKER_3: I don't know how to judge which one of these.
SPEAKER_3: I mean, at this point, we fully made clear that we just choose based on whatever we want to do the third round.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Let's just go with mine for that one since you won the first round.
SPEAKER_3: And then third round, wild card.
SPEAKER_1: Mine is performing on stage.
SPEAKER_3: Mine is stable trans women community.
SPEAKER_1: Damn.
SPEAKER_1: That one wins.
SPEAKER_1: We don't even need to go to it.
SPEAKER_1: I want that one to win.
SPEAKER_1: Please give me that one.
SPEAKER_1: Can we have all the trans women go perform on stage together?
SPEAKER_1: And this is how it's stable.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, wait, no shit.
SPEAKER_1: Someone will say something a little fall apart.
SPEAKER_3: Listen, the thing is, is that one can burn so fast.
SPEAKER_1: Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_2: Let's burn your craving.
SPEAKER_3: Burn that craving.
SPEAKER_3: One of those is going to line up.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Burn that.
SPEAKER_1: Done it.
SPEAKER_1: Perfect.
SPEAKER_2: Burn that.
SPEAKER_3: I was just going into Barracuda there because Barracuda is a good ass song.
SPEAKER_1: Barracuda is saddest song of all time.
SPEAKER_3: My understanding of that one is that they're really mad about paparazzi following them around.
SPEAKER_1: I thought it was about the fish.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, that too.
SPEAKER_3: Both, obviously.
SPEAKER_1: Sometimes you are a fish press.
SPEAKER_3: Sometimes you're the fish press.
SPEAKER_1: That's a great character concept.
SPEAKER_1: I'm the fish journalist.
SPEAKER_1: Are you a journalist who is a fish or a journalist who covers fish?
SPEAKER_1: Who could say?
SPEAKER_3: I'm both.
SPEAKER_3: I am both.
SPEAKER_3: I am the fish journalist from the fish community.
SPEAKER_3: And I'm done with all you other journalists coming into our community and covering us.
SPEAKER_3: So I'm doing it now.
SPEAKER_3: And I sound a little bit like Bernie Sanders.
SPEAKER_1: Bernie Sanders, original fish journalist.
SPEAKER_3: You know, video games, it's been a minute since we talked about video games real proper.
SPEAKER_1: Sure.
SPEAKER_1: I'm aware of video games.
SPEAKER_3: I like when a game is difficult, but it's also cheering you on.
SPEAKER_3: You know, I love when a game knows that it's hard and it's supporting you in trying to beat it.
SPEAKER_3: And so you get less frustrated when you run into a wall and die for the 60th time in a row.
SPEAKER_3: My biggest examples of this would be like, I think Celeste does a really good job at it.
SPEAKER_3: Undertale does a really good job at it.
SPEAKER_3: And recently, I think I've...
SPEAKER_1: Undertale, depending on which one, if you pick the genocide run, it really tries to be like, no, just stop.
SPEAKER_1: Just stop playing.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_3: I don't choose the genocide run.
SPEAKER_3: I'm not a monster.
SPEAKER_3: Fair.
SPEAKER_3: Playing a game a certain way doesn't make you a monster.
SPEAKER_3: Hades also, I think, does a good job.
SPEAKER_3: The NPCs in that game are very supportive, and they're like, you can do it.
SPEAKER_3: You can get them.
SPEAKER_3: You can kill your dad.
SPEAKER_3: I support you, and I believe in you.
SPEAKER_1: This is an event where I support.
SPEAKER_3: Those are, to me, those are good games.
SPEAKER_3: Good games are supportive when they're difficult.
SPEAKER_3: Do you have other good examples of these types of games?
SPEAKER_1: I mean, you kind of gave my immediate examples.
SPEAKER_1: Celeste was my big one that came to mind, obviously.
SPEAKER_1: For me, it's hard to think about a game cheering you on and more like a game that encourages you to keep playing through either plot or...
SPEAKER_1: I think Celeste is really good.
SPEAKER_1: The pacing is one screen at a time, so it still feels like progress is being made, even if you spend an hour on one screen.
SPEAKER_1: It's like, all right, all right, visible progress.
SPEAKER_1: I have advanced to the next screen versus, like, I'm playing my first AAA title in, like, years.
SPEAKER_1: And the thing that keeps me going, even if I'm not doing so great, is, like, an interesting plot, like, a bigger plot, right?
SPEAKER_1: Because, like, AAA games are like, we need to have all the plot.
SPEAKER_1: And it's like, oh, there's, like, a lot of moving parts.
SPEAKER_1: It's very much like a Friends of the Table campaign, but what if you got to play it?
SPEAKER_3: Which game is this?
SPEAKER_1: Nier Automata.
SPEAKER_3: Lots of people like that game, haven't tried it myself.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, it so I'm hesitant because it's not doing, in my opinion, it's not doing anything unique so far, but apparently there are twists.
SPEAKER_3: That's what I've heard.
SPEAKER_1: So what is the thing that keeps you going?
SPEAKER_1: Is it visual progress?
SPEAKER_1: Is it plot like?
SPEAKER_3: One of the really important things to me is when the failure is like a part of the story of the game, you know?
SPEAKER_3: That's one of the things about Celeste is Celeste is, you're supposed to, it's supposed to be hard because the hard journey is part of it.
SPEAKER_3: And Haney's like, you die and you come back and you're like, well, I died again, dang.
SPEAKER_3: That sucks.
SPEAKER_3: Try it again.
SPEAKER_3: And that's very encouraging because you're like, oh, me dying didn't actually interrupt the flow of the story.
SPEAKER_3: It is a part of the flow of the story.
SPEAKER_1: So how do you feel about the games like Square Enix or Final Fantasy where it's like, and now you die at this boss, you're supposed to die, you're not supposed to win against this boss.
SPEAKER_1: That's different, right?
SPEAKER_3: That's like, yeah, that's different.
SPEAKER_3: That's pretty new trope.
SPEAKER_3: I mean, I don't know that I've played one of those games.
SPEAKER_3: I feel like the first time you do that, that's cool.
SPEAKER_3: The second time, no longer cool.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_3: I don't know, sending your player up to fail is like, that's just like doing a twist, you know?
SPEAKER_3: And like a twist is cool the first time, you know?
SPEAKER_1: So is it less about the like death and more about the expectations that the game places on you early with minimal ramifications?
SPEAKER_1: Like Celeste, if you die, you get put back to the front of the screen.
SPEAKER_1: You don't lose anything.
SPEAKER_1: Haiti is a very similar thing.
SPEAKER_1: You never lose anything.
SPEAKER_1: I guess you lose the run, but...
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, but you don't lose that much, you know?
SPEAKER_1: What we need is more games for you that when you die, you actually go forward.
SPEAKER_3: Ooh, that's fun.
SPEAKER_3: I like this.
SPEAKER_3: Death is a part of the progression system.
SPEAKER_1: So you're a baby trans Necromancer.
SPEAKER_1: Necro Trancer is the name of the game.
SPEAKER_1: And you're trying to die as many times as you can in order to summon your new god that you want to bring into this world.
SPEAKER_3: Okay, so I just have a real quick question.
SPEAKER_3: Is the trans-ness of the character crucial to this plot?
SPEAKER_1: Yes, because I've decided so.
SPEAKER_3: They can still be trans.
SPEAKER_3: I just think if you're naming the game after the fact that they're trans, I would love to know why that's core to the game.
SPEAKER_1: Because Necro Trancer sounds dope as shit.
SPEAKER_3: Sure.
SPEAKER_1: It's about discovering your new identity as a Necromancer as you came out as trans, I guess.
SPEAKER_3: But what's the game part of it if dying is the core progression mechanic?
SPEAKER_1: You have to die until your gender changes.
SPEAKER_3: Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_1: That's how you achieve different gender.
SPEAKER_1: This is actually what transition is.
SPEAKER_3: This is actually what transition is.
SPEAKER_3: You die the first time and it's like, yeah, at every time you just get a bigger and bigger cup size or a smaller and smaller cup size.
SPEAKER_1: I need bigger titty, better go die three more times.
SPEAKER_3: Are you still trying not to die or are you trying to die?
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, I think there's like people, I think there's like healers, right?
SPEAKER_3: You have to avoid the healers, but they're not losing anything, right?
SPEAKER_3: They'll heal you and it's just like, damn, I'm going to have to go farther before I can die again.
SPEAKER_3: It's got to be an infinite game at this point, right?
SPEAKER_3: Unless you die.
SPEAKER_3: It's just like you're just facing healer upon healer upon healer until hopefully you die because you're slowly deteriorating.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, there's like traps around the room, but they're like single use.
SPEAKER_1: I don't know.
SPEAKER_1: I'm not going to invent this game in 10 minutes.
SPEAKER_3: No, it turns out games do take a little bit longer, but I do love the idea where your death is the thing that you're wanting.
SPEAKER_3: It feels like this is really would flip it on its head, but it also has to be like you got to have supportive people there trying to help you die.
SPEAKER_3: Maybe they're also now.
SPEAKER_1: I kind of want to make this game though.
SPEAKER_1: This kind of sounds great and NecroTransfer is a great title, and I can actually think of ways to do this.
SPEAKER_1: So maybe Brianna, what I'm saying is maybe we should make a game and this will solve your craving.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, why not simply make another game where death is a crucial mechanic?
SPEAKER_3: Oh, I made this game, huh?
SPEAKER_1: Oh, you did, didn't you?
SPEAKER_3: I made the game where it supports you as you die and death is a crucial part of the mechanics.
SPEAKER_1: Congrats.
SPEAKER_3: I solved my own craving like last weekend when I released the Alpha of Brothers In Arms.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, hey, by the way, go check out Price of Bri on Twitter or weepingrobot.itch.io and check out Brothers In Arms now in Alpha for free for a period of time.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, I'm really proud of it.
SPEAKER_3: Anyway, Clair, give me our last craving of the episode.
SPEAKER_1: I still didn't pick any, so I'm debating between some of them.
SPEAKER_3: It's just like, I love that, you know, this to me is finishing strong.
SPEAKER_1: I was prepared for the intro.
SPEAKER_1: Hey, I was prepared for the intro.
SPEAKER_3: And it was a good fucking intro.
SPEAKER_3: And that Empress right now, she's listening to this podcast and she is...
SPEAKER_1: I'm just not delivering.
SPEAKER_1: I hope that gesture is okay.
SPEAKER_3: Oh, I think, oh, I hope so too.
SPEAKER_3: Hey, hey, hey, Empress, I know you're listening to the podcast.
SPEAKER_3: I just want to suggest, don't kill that gesture yet.
SPEAKER_3: I promise we got more guffaws, the laughs.
SPEAKER_1: Hopefully, I hope that gesture doesn't die.
SPEAKER_1: Maybe this will help because something that I crave often is plot armor for the characters I love.
SPEAKER_1: Unless I did this one already.
SPEAKER_1: Wait, I need to go to saltcravings.com because I feel like I've done this and I just didn't tick it off.
SPEAKER_1: Yes, episode 33.
SPEAKER_1: Let me pick a different one.
SPEAKER_3: Let's try again.
SPEAKER_1: Shout out to Only Nut November.
SPEAKER_1: I still think every I hope that Jester has plot armor.
SPEAKER_1: Anyways, my craving is the weaponization of the bread and circus.
SPEAKER_2: Uh huh.
SPEAKER_1: I knew what this meant when I wrote it down and now I'm just quickly googling it.
SPEAKER_3: I would love to know what the weaponization of the bread and circus means.
SPEAKER_1: So the bread and circus is the idea of superficial appeasement.
SPEAKER_1: I feel like I was really I was really aware of the meaning of this when I wrote this down.
SPEAKER_3: You know, you could have burned this one and chosen something else.
SPEAKER_1: You know, we're going to do this.
SPEAKER_1: This is sloppy cravings today.
SPEAKER_1: I'm choosing a different one.
SPEAKER_3: I'm going to spin the wheel.
SPEAKER_3: Hang on.
SPEAKER_3: I'm going to spin the wheel for this third one because this third one is going to nail it.
SPEAKER_1: This one is the process of making a meal.
SPEAKER_3: Hell, yes.
SPEAKER_1: I really like potlucks and whatnot.
SPEAKER_1: And like, have you ever made pierogi before?
SPEAKER_1: Like handmade?
SPEAKER_3: I don't think I've made them handmade.
SPEAKER_3: I've made like dumplings, but I don't think I've made pierogies.
SPEAKER_1: With two people, we've got it down to, I think, four hours from start to finish or three and a half, I think now.
SPEAKER_1: But yeah, I know you gotta make the dough.
SPEAKER_1: You gotta roll the dough.
SPEAKER_1: You gotta make the fillings.
SPEAKER_1: You gotta fill them.
SPEAKER_1: That's a process.
SPEAKER_1: You gotta boil them and then you gotta fry them.
SPEAKER_1: And so really what could be done is you could chunk those up.
SPEAKER_1: And I love the videos of having like five to six people in the kitchen and you just have like one person filling and then you just pass them on and then you have a person boiling them and then that person takes them and they fry them up and you just have an endless cycle of food.
SPEAKER_1: And so like really, like cooking parties, the process of making a meal, it's like family, it's like community, and then at the end of it you get to eat.
SPEAKER_3: Fucking rocks.
SPEAKER_3: I mean, Tuesday Party has been this for us.
SPEAKER_3: The process of making meals has been so wonderful and so great.
SPEAKER_3: It rocks.
SPEAKER_3: It's so good.
SPEAKER_3: And I think the only way to save this craving is to make the meals bigger, bigger than before.
SPEAKER_1: Oh no, it's the Last Supper.
SPEAKER_3: Huge honkin pierogies.
SPEAKER_3: They're like the size of your head each.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_3: You're making them in the world's biggest bowl, in the world's biggest stuff.
SPEAKER_3: I mean, maybe not the world's biggest bowl, I've got the world's biggest bowl, it's very big, but you're making these pierogies.
SPEAKER_3: They're turning out real big.
SPEAKER_3: And you just got a whole town together making these giant pierogies.
SPEAKER_1: Now, counter argument, big pierogies uses up a lot of your resources really fast.
SPEAKER_1: If you're thinking, like, how much filling can I make in an hour, that's gonna go away really fast if you're making big pierogies.
SPEAKER_1: Let me throw to you micro-perogies, where...
SPEAKER_3: No, there's nothing there.
SPEAKER_1: It's pri-prikogies.
SPEAKER_1: Prikogies.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, that's my last name.
SPEAKER_3: That's my last name now, prirogy.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, and so you're just churning out thousands of these.
SPEAKER_1: Absolutely, like, thousands.
SPEAKER_1: It's just like a little dime perogie.
SPEAKER_2: Just a little...
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, just like that.
SPEAKER_1: And really, if you make the food smaller, you can have more of it, and that means you can make the food-making process longer.
SPEAKER_1: If you want to make it even longer, you can just have people switch in and out, right?
SPEAKER_1: Always have like, you know, you have your eaters, you have your meaters, they're the ones who handle the meat, and then you have the like, seeders, which help transition people from being meaters to eaters.
SPEAKER_1: And then you just take turns.
SPEAKER_3: I don't understand, and I don't know that I want to.
SPEAKER_1: Making food can get tiring, so sometimes, you know, eventually you want to get to the eating food.
SPEAKER_1: But once you've eaten the food, then you want to go chill for a bit.
SPEAKER_1: So, you know, you can be a seeder, you know, more of the socializing.
SPEAKER_1: You're like, yeah, come on.
SPEAKER_1: All right.
SPEAKER_1: I know it was fun being a meter for a while, handling all that meat, but now it's time to be an eater.
SPEAKER_1: The meal is done for you.
SPEAKER_1: Now you get to enjoy the meal as more people become meters when you are a seeder.
SPEAKER_1: I think this makes perfect sense.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_3: So just to be clear, there's eaters and meters.
SPEAKER_1: And seeders.
SPEAKER_3: And seeders.
SPEAKER_3: What about needers?
SPEAKER_1: Oh, needers.
SPEAKER_1: Those are the ones who clean up.
SPEAKER_3: How could I be such a fool as to think they might need the dough that you need or perhaps?
SPEAKER_1: Well, no, those are the needers.
SPEAKER_1: We have needers and then we have needers.
SPEAKER_3: And who's the leader?
SPEAKER_1: The feeders.
SPEAKER_1: Because they're running around on our feet.
SPEAKER_3: Right, but that's distinct from the feeders.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, the people who are feeding the eaters.
SPEAKER_1: So you have the seeders that help the meeters transition to eaters who are helped by the feeders who then become leaders who help via being feeders, leading the needers to help clean up the mess that the needers have made by needing the dough.
SPEAKER_1: I think this makes sense.
SPEAKER_1: Now, tell me about Peter.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, Peter's just in the corner.
SPEAKER_1: Don't bug Peter.
SPEAKER_1: You don't.
SPEAKER_2: Nobody likes Peter.
SPEAKER_3: And then the readers.
SPEAKER_3: They're just reading.
SPEAKER_3: They're not eating.
SPEAKER_3: They're just there.
SPEAKER_3: This is just a party now.
SPEAKER_1: And there's always a party.
SPEAKER_3: There's always a party.
SPEAKER_3: That's my secret cap of always party.
SPEAKER_1: Do you have a craving?
SPEAKER_3: Why would I have a craving?
SPEAKER_1: We're done.
SPEAKER_3: Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_1: Well, I guess if we're done, then I guess it's time to not kill the Jester.
SPEAKER_1: You sure you don't have another craving?
SPEAKER_3: Interesting.
SPEAKER_2: It seems that in the podcast, they've run out of material.
SPEAKER_3: My dear court Jester.
SPEAKER_1: No, I'm sure they will have more soon.
SPEAKER_3: Keep listening, please.
SPEAKER_3: How much more, Jester?
SPEAKER_1: This has been Salt Cravings.
SPEAKER_1: Follow us at Salt Cravings at Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.
SPEAKER_1: If you want to save the Jester's life, make sure to send in your cravings to submissions at Salt Cravings or save them for the stream on July 1st to the 4th.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, the Empress notes.
SPEAKER_1: They're so nice.
SPEAKER_2: I know all things.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_1: That's weird.
SPEAKER_1: She's not on the podcast, but okay.
SPEAKER_3: I'm very excited for the live stream.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, good.
SPEAKER_1: We all know that the Empress is very giving with her money, which is why she will be donating hundreds of thousands of her gold, and you should too, to the stream, the donation stream.
SPEAKER_2: I am very generous, and I will absolutely be donating much money as I do all of the time to the links in the description.
SPEAKER_3: I'm only cruel to you, court jest.
SPEAKER_3: And I do so enjoy this podcast.
SPEAKER_3: I think I might give it a rating or even a review on my podcast platform of choice, which is the crown that I'm wearing.
SPEAKER_1: Go rate a podcast, and remember to leave the comment, save the jesters, so that more innocent jesters do not get sent down the invisible pit.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, I do like that pit very much.
SPEAKER_3: I think I might like to see it.
SPEAKER_1: No, it's okay.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, it's invisible.
SPEAKER_1: You can't even see it.
SPEAKER_1: It's fine.
SPEAKER_3: Yes, I think I shall slide down the pit myself.
SPEAKER_1: Oh no, wait, what?
SPEAKER_3: And now I'm going and I'm walking and I'm going and I'm stepping on top of where the pit is.
SPEAKER_3: But you are beloved of the trees.
SPEAKER_3: Please drop me into the pit.
SPEAKER_3: Not without me.
SPEAKER_2: I'm coming with you.
SPEAKER_2: Here we go.
SPEAKER_3: There's a normie zone now, normies only.
SPEAKER_1: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_3: Okay, should we time that is?
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, that sounds good.
SPEAKER_3: You're on intro today, by the way.
SPEAKER_1: I am, 10 seconds?
SPEAKER_3: 10 seconds.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, was that, okay.
SPEAKER_1: 20?
SPEAKER_3: No, okay, 25, 25, 25.
SPEAKER_1: Wait, did you clap?
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: I didn't hear any of those claps.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, clearly, that was perfect.
SPEAKER_3: I didn't hear any of your claps.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, I clapped every time.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, no, I clapped for all of them except 20.
SPEAKER_1: What?
SPEAKER_1: Wait, is noise suppression on?
SPEAKER_1: Do I have noise suppression?
SPEAKER_1: Oh, I do have noise suppression on.
SPEAKER_1: That might be why.
SPEAKER_1: I think I think I am being suppressed.
SPEAKER_3: Perhaps I also have noise suppression on.
SPEAKER_3: I also have noise suppression on.
SPEAKER_1: I'm being suppressed.
SPEAKER_3: Help, help.
SPEAKER_3: I'm being suppressed.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, that explains.
SPEAKER_3: Now we see the violence inherent in the system.
SPEAKER_1: Well, we have four claps now, probably the most claps we have ever done because we kept thinking the other person didn't clap.
SPEAKER_3: We're, we've all, we are all clap.
SPEAKER_1: We are all clap here.
SPEAKER_3: We are all clap down here.
SPEAKER_3: Is that, is this it?
SPEAKER_3: This is my understanding of it.